Rebuttals of the Week! #17: Feminist bigotry and logical fallacies.

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Kerry S: Cue all the men explaining why the gender pay gap isn’t a thing

Going to Getugly: Kerry, care to provide some kind of rational explanation for why men replying is a problem for you?

Kerry S: Ok. I’ll bite. Men replying is not a problem, per se. It’s just that soooo many of them spout the same old line despite the longitudinal evidence proving otherwise. I didn’t answer you because clearly you are spoiling for a fight and it is clear to me that rational argument would be wasted. You have made up your mind.

Going to Getugly: We could go on with the battling snarky comments… but I’d rather attempt a genuine conversation. Let me do a quick review of what has occurred and get your response:

The Age has posted an article.

– People have responded to the article by expressing their perspective in the comment section.

– You have started off this little thread… not by addressing anything raised in the article or responding to criticism or concerns raised by commentators… but by expressing generalised condescension towards anyone of a particular gender who may express disagreement with the article’s premise.

– Another commentator, Kelly, joined in on the generalised condescension towards people based solely on their gender and not their arguments:

Kelly :  “I’m just here to laugh at their bitter tears and tantrums”

– You replied in agreement with her and complained about the number of people of that gender expressing their perspective here:

Kerry S: “Kelly Anne yup. Skimming across the replies. Nearly all men…”

I think you have to agree that what I have described above is completely accurate and factual.

Now, my understanding of credible adult-level reasoned discussion and debate has always been that attacking anything other than the argument of the other person reflects incompetent reasoning. It’s fallacious. It signals someone who has a fixed conclusion to which they are very attached and are determined to protect… but which they can’t rationally and objectively support or justify. That’s why they deflect to complaining about anything OTHER than the arguments… things like the gender, race or age of the person who doesn’t share their convictions. Other deflection tactics include things like declaring themselves too far above the level of the other person to deign to engage them in rational debate.

It seems clear that you don’t share that understanding of what qualifies as credible reasoned discussion and debate. I’m curious, on what basis do you justify rejecting these basic, well established and essentially universally acknowledged standards? And why would you believe that demonstrating your rejection of those standards is not open to valid criticism and doesn’t disqualify you as being regarded as an informed and serious thinker?


Guess what… Kerry S never responded. I wonder why?

 

 

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Rebuttals of the Week #16: ‘Progressive’-Left thinking = incompetent reasoning skills.

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(Link to the article: Equal outcomes have replaced equality of opportunity )

Tracy H:  Who says diversity and excellence are mutually exclusive?

Going to Getugly: Tracy… you are the third person I’ve seen here who has indulged in the very same, unbelievably banal straw man:

Liam SO: Why do you think that diversity of thought or intellect is mutually exclusive to racial, gender, ethnic and sexual diversity???

Leslie M:  The article confuses different issues; excellence and diversity are not mutually exclusive

To me, this is an example of the incapacitating effect that being captured by a generic, all-consuming ideology has on an individual’s ability to think: You reflexively go to preconceived ideological categories in your head to tell you how to interpret what you are looking at rather than identifying the genuine characteristics of the ‘thing’ you are (supposedly) trying to understand.

Nowhere in Wente’s column does she say “diversity and excellence are mutually exclusive”. Neither does she make that argument.

And yet you and at least two others here have asserted that she directly or indirectly made that claim.

So if it didn’t come from Wente…. how did it get in your head? The only answer to that question is that it got in your head because YOU put it there. Not her.

When you say she said “diversity and excellence are mutually exclusive”… you are not describing Wente! You are describing YOU! Only you can’t tell the difference between what you make up in your mind and the ‘thing’ out there in the world that you believe you are describing.

And in my experience… this is the foundational characteristic of people who are on the ‘progressive’-Left. And as far as I’m concerned, it’s a demonstrable justification for equating ‘progressivism’ with incompetent reasoning skills.

Rebuttals of the week! #14: Enough with the ‘cultural appropriation’ garbage already!

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Halloween is fast approaching… so naturally the  ‘Let’s Pretend Trivial Nonsense Is Incredibly Important Squad’ is back to remind us that comfortable people in a uniquely successful and pluralistic civilisation will invent problems for themselves in order to have something to complain about.

Whereas normal people see the holiday as a rare opportunity to temporarily escape an increasingly mirthless, censorious and rigidly conformist daily grind (once known as having fun)… the New Puritans of the allegedly ‘progressive’ Left are intent on making sure that the rest of us are just as miserable, uptight, boring and uncomfortable with spontaneity and as themselves.

That’s why something like the packaging of  obscure, seasonal products that have no effect on anyone can be accepted as worthy of intense scrutiny and moral consternation by major mainstream news organisations like the Globe and Mail.

The article prompted the following, reasonably non-agitated response from Michael G:

Michael G:  If you’re secure with yourself and heritage/culture, it’s not really an issue. All I’d be pissed about is having a non authentic costume….obviously those depicted are not authentic representations. But still i wouldn’t get my breaches in a bunch about it…

Commentator Su Con however, found Michael’s take on the matter to be in conflict with the standard ‘progressive’ party-line:

Su Con: Given the racism that still exists, how can they be secure? Doesn’t this all come down to trying to change that?

So I helped clarify the situation:

Going to Getugly:  No. This has nothing to do with stopping racism. It’s about two very specific things:

1. It’s about people who want to leverage their ‘victim’ status in order to see their will imposed on other people.

2. It’s about mainstream, middle-class people who find it gratifying to their ego and self-image to appear supportive of any fashionable trend… regardless of how stupid… that is marketed to them as atoning for past wrongs inflicted on minorities.

These two videos explore in detail what is really going on with the whole ‘cultural appropriation’ craziness:

Pandering to the biases and expectations of the comfortable middle class is the definition of ‘cowardly comedy’.

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In the article, John Doyle asserts: “It is stating the obvious to note that satiric comedy is enjoying a golden age in the United States. Every late-night chat show benefited from a tumultuous election and the triumph of Donald Trump. The Daily Show, much less pugnacious than under Jon Stewart, is thriving. The arrival of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver and Full Frontal with Samantha Bee only underlines that the appetite for the genre is huge.

 

The landscape here in Canada is different, but surely it is ripe for more caustic humour than we’ve been getting.” 

Doyle is an example of the PROBLEM… not the solution.

The reason Canadian comedy is so meek and unfunny is NOT because it isn’t sufficiently like current American comedy. It’s because Canadian comedy is an even lamer version of the same predictable pandering to the conceits, assumptions and biases of the comfortable liberal middle class that defines American comedy today.

It’s simply delusional to believe that there is anything dangerous or brave about millionaire, Hollywood establishment liberal American television comedians telling an audience of mainstream, middle-class liberals that they are absolutely right about everything.

In the article, Doyle claims that these mainstream TV comedians like John Oliver, Samantha Bee  and Jimmy Kimmel are encouraging everyone to “mock and distrust authority”. Now that’s funny! It’s also in complete defiance of reality!

These people are the CHEERLEADERS for the unchallenged authority of the ruling class. Don’t believe me? Then answer this question: Who does everyone… and I mean EVERYONE… in the political establishment, the mainstream media establishment, the Hollywood establishment and the academic establishment… in other words, all of the elites with power and authority in society…. absolutely despise and want to destroy right now?

You know the answer.

So you have to ask yourself…. who is really the one openly mocking and encouraging distrust of those who have grown accustomed to their hold on power and authority?

 

Rebuttals of the Week! #12: Force people to adopt policy you may think is harmful to children because…. compassion?

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Nath: Sorry to the snowflakes who have to learn new words(I understand basic comprehension of proper grammar is probably hard for y’all). It’s called compassion, suck it up and get with the times.

Going to Getugly: Imposing your values on other people by making this mandatory is as far from ‘compassion’ as you can get. This fondness that ‘progressives’ have for changing the meaning of words to give a morally superior facade to their desire to force people to conform to their worldview is pathetic.

Nath: So you aren’t imposing your views by trying to stop it? It doesn’t hurt anyone. Its so people can understand. These people exist and deserve to be treated as people.

Going to Getugly:  How do you know it “doesn’t hurt anyone”? And clearly, you don’t understand the meaning of “imposing”. Imposing means forcing someone to do something whether they agree with it or not. Saying “Don’t impose this on people”… is the OPPOSITE of imposing things on people. Unfortunately, you have provided yet another example of how the only reasoning that ‘progressives’ seem capable of engaging is self-confirming, logically incoherent circular reasoning.

Nath: Clearly we disagree. I don’t necessarily agree with the whole trans thing, especially when it comes to children, I find it strange. But, these people just want acceptance in society. I see nothing wrong with doing that. Why do you disagree with it?

Going to Getugly: Well as you say, the “whole trans thing, especially when it comes to children” is extremely troubling. In fact, it is completely irrational to propose that human beings at the earliest stages of their development… whom we don’t even grant authority to decide for themselves when they go to sleep or what they eat for dinner… are nonetheless completely competent to declare that their ‘identity’…whatever that is…. is the opposite of the reality of their biology. These are concepts that even reasonably informed adults are finding extremely challenging to contextualize…. and yet we’re granting absolute authority to the self-assessment of 13 year olds.

My concern is that today’s adults are prioritising their desire to not be seen as being out-of-step with fashionable ‘progressiveideology over the true well-being of children. And the intention of The Ontario Human Rights Tribunal (which Professor Jordan Peterson has called “one of the most dangerous institutions in Canada”) pressuring institutions like the Ontario Hockey Federation into imposing these policies is to FORCE people to agree with all of this and to make it so socially, professionally and even legally unpleasant to question the wisdom of any of it that people just obediently submit and conform.

And all of that is terrible.

Rebuttals of the Week#11: Why ‘progressives’ hate reality

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Poor old Tony Abbott just can’t catch a break it seems. He makes some completely benign, not uncommon, absolutely reasonable pro-marriage comment and all the tolerant, compassionate, accepting, non-judgemental, empathetic, morally righteous ‘progressives’ and feminists take it as an opportunity to unleash upon him any vile, cruel, dehumanizing accusation and epithet their corrupt little minds can generate.

Abbott’s comment inspired the above nasty, predictably anti-male and anti-Western civilization screed by Jenny Noyes in the radical feminist propaganda pamphlet The Age. As usual, this was an invitation to all the exemplars of virtue and goodness on the ‘progressive’/feminist Left among the general public to weigh in with their own wise and insightful observations in the comment section. In other words, there was a lot of this sort of thing:

Sharon F: “Cockhead”

Sezzy: “Being a woman myself, I feel like I need protection from idiots like him. Bloody ignorant fool!”

Bubba: “the irony is that marriage has not protected his missus or kids from having a complete dickhead as a husband and father.”

Stephen: “The man is just a delusional fool. I cannot wait to see the look on his hideous head when we finally receive true equality.”

Faye W: “Abbott you are a dickhead and an embarrassment.”

So a contributor to the comment section, Carl  L, tried to raise the quality of the discourse by injecting some factual evidence into the discussion:

Carl L: Children of divorced or never-married mothers are six to 30 times more likely to suffer from serious child abuse than are children raised by both biological parents in marriage.

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Mum’s boyfriend – the worst sexual risk to children

Which provoked quite a few responses like these from folks who won’t let truth get between them and their preferred version of reality:

Kirsten A: “So, not a peer reviewed piece of literature.”

Lisa B: “Source is more than 5 years old lol”

My rebuttal, directed primarily at Lisa, is a breakdown of an extremely common thinking pattern which a lot of bad thinkers default to when they are confronted with evidence and argument that refutes their self-confirming, subjective beliefs. It’s the “Truth or Concept Pattern”. It highlights the distinction between people who have an attachment to a belief or concept which they find personally gratifying in some way,  and those who have an attachment to truth. When you become aware of the pattern, you’ll see it all of the time…. particularly when debating ‘progressives’, feminists, Leftists etc..


Going to Getugly: “Source is more than 5 years old lol”. Just like Kirsten Alys above. I’ll tell you how your mind is working here Lisa so you can improve your reasoning in the future:

Lisa’s mind: “I have a specific perception of this issue and  I’m really attached to it because  it’s very satisfying to my ego.  And I’ve never bothered to look into it because I just assume I’m right if a particular belief appeals to me.

Now I’m presented with credible information that completely invalidates my preferred assumptions and which gives me insight into actual, objective truth.

But I’m not interested in objective TRUTH! MY priority is preserving my preferred but false perception… because the satisfaction I derive from believing it is WAY more important to me than having an authentic appreciation of reality.

Problem: I refuse to update my understanding of this issue based on this new information (like a mature thinker would do)…. but I need some excuse that appears to justify my irrational denial of reality.

Solution: Oh, look! This was published in 2012.  I’ll assert that because the study was published FIVE WHOLE YEARS ago… that makes it invalid somehow! Sure, that makes no sense…. it’s a completely arbitrary proclamation…. and if I’m asked to explain why that invalidates it I’ll have to make something else up on the spot. But it’s all I’ve got! Oh yeah…. and I’ll put a condescending ‘lol’ at the end (even though that’s the sort of thing 14 year olds do) to convey that I’m so much more ‘aware’ and ‘clever’ than the dummy who provided the information.”

Do you see how transparent this flawed thinking process is, Lisa? Hopefully now that it’s been pointed out, you and Kirsten… as well as a lot of other women posting here…. will catch yourselves before you default to this pattern of inadequate reasoning in the future.

 

 

‘Cultural appropriation’ propaganda pushed by mainstream media

Watch four of the most sanctimonious and obnoxious ‘progressives’ to ever walk the Earth lecture the ignorant masses about ‘cultural appropriation’ in this blatant piece of mainstream media propaganda. New Getugly video: